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night and this morning is they are making it up as they go. i agree with jim. now that we have the lead individual, the older brother dead, the younger one has to make decisions. as an fbi hostage negotiator, this is the type of guy we would like to talk to. we contain him and isolate him from contact with the outside world and we negotiate and we help him identify reasons to live. that's what fbi negotiators and atf will be trying to do. if they can get him located in one place, time is somewhat on our side. it's unprecedented to shut a city down like this. it sets a terrible example for people in the future, but right now this is what we have to deal with. >> when i heard about the 7-11 and you hear about them with the mit police officer, why would you dru attention to yourself? they had to know that they were going to be pursued. is that tied to the fact and when i originally saw that video yesterday that was released and taken from the department store camera, they looked calm. they looked like anybody. they almost looked confident-cocky to me. there is the video to me. they are wal
. people say all the time, you look sort of like that guy, like that guy. let's go to jim cavanaugh right now. maybe i think like a cop but i'm thinking monday night they could have had plane tickets to be out of the country, middle east, driven to the canadian border, been to new york by monday at midnight. there's so many possibilities of where they've gone. what does it tell you that the fbi gave up trying to find them on their own? >> they made the right decision, the task force did to release them. you always want to be able to identify them yourself because then you can put them under surveillance, see their behavior, and make their move when you want to. that's what we all prefer in law enforcement. in law enforcement, we don't want to tell anybody anything. that's not the way it can work. and you're exactly right. mike isikoff, who i think is always right, you're exactly right about coming and going. look, if these were foreign nationals, they could have come in to watch the marathon or even if they were domestic perpetrators, they could have come in to watch the marathon for two,
. let's bring in retired atf special agent in charge, nbc news analyst jim cavanaugh. jim, it's, it's a changing situation. but certainly it is a dramatic scene. it almost looks like a war zone, streets empty, we don't know how many officers are on the scene. but the tension seems to be remarkably high. there's some thought that perhaps dzhokah tsarnaev is holed up and is being negotiated with at this point. >> alex, that's exactly right. you know when you're in command of a situation like this, i always like to break it down to the main things that handle the main crisis points and address those. and there's three interlocking rings here that are affecting boston and the citizens. and that's what the commanders have got to focus on. one is the standoff with dzhokhar, we can talk about how that interlocks and what's going on there. the second is, the placement of another pressure cooker device in the city that they've located. and the question of are there more. and then the third interlocking circle is, whether or not there's these two accomplices, as pete williams described and ma
's turn back to the investigation and talk to jim walsh, an international security and terrorism expert at m.i.t. let's talk about law enforcement. what are they looking for now? how do they go about this investigation? take us through some of those steps? and within that, we have to start forming some theories. from what we know already, do you think that it is maybe an individual or probably a group and how do you go about figuring out, is this a foreign group or individual, or americans? >> yeah. those are big questions and there are a lot of them. let me start in the beginning and say in terms of the phase of the investigation, i think there are different parts and different parts of the government are handling different parts of the investigation. so obviously, the most important and immediate thing are those events and evidence that are near the attack. that are approximate to the attack. that includes the crime scene. that includes the material used in the bomb and the process of reconstructing what that bomb looked like. it is designed, the materials it used. the nature of the t
and come along with him. in a relationship like this, and jim can talk about the d.c. sniper, but you usually have an older or dominant individual and a younger one who's a follower. that could very well be the case with these two brothers also. >> clint, they're more likely to be able to i guess the person who's trying to do the influence can do so if they're in more of a vacuum. not being reached out to by other family members. they were living in a very isolated manner on their own. >> what bothers me is they come to this country as refugees. they claim that status. and then turn and ause that against us. it's always that the very best nature, the very best that's in us, in the united states, is turned around and used, weapon, against us, by those who would do us harm. >> it's interesting, you talk about that. the family was granted legal permanent residence march of 2007, became naturalized citi n citizens on the anniversary of 9/11 just last year. there certainly seems to be irony in that. with regard to the potential bombs, explosive devices that are planted around boston, is t
clint? >> number one, i think as jim and i have discussed, the older brother was probably the primary influence. he influenced his younger brother. this 19-year-old man now has lost that influence. he's lost that decision-making ability on the part of his older brother, so he's on his own. look, for all we know right now, three different things. he's either hiding in one of these houses, he's under a house and maybe he's bled to death because he got shot in the ch e shootout, too, or he was able to escape. if law enforcement closes that net tighter, they get through every house and every apartment and he's not there, that's going to be a new time to consider what we're doing. did we miss him? did he get away? and we also have to consider motive on this which is most important, and, you know, sometimes we look at the simplest motive and it makes no sense to us because it's almost chaotic. and it may be that these two young men were simply trying in their own terrible way to bring attention to the chechnyan, vis-a-vis the timmy mcveigh type who said collateral damage. these are the thi
who can't talk? hostage negotiator jim cavanagh is back with us next. ♪ good time never seemed so good ♪ what do you think? that's great. it won't take long, will it? nah. okay. this, won't take long will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. didn't take very long, did it? this spring, dig in and save. that's nice. post it. already did. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. dig in and save with vigoro one-quart annuals, four for just ten bucks. >>> the interrogation of dzhokhar tsarnaev is underway but not necessarily as planned. right now the surviving marathon bombing suspect lies underguard at a boston hospital. he is answering questions in writing because of a throat wound. possibly from a suicide attempt friday night, it tough for him to talk. there is no word on what information he may be giving investigators about the plot or the attack. in the past few days, interesting details have emerged about how dzhokhar spend his day on campus at the university of massachusetts dartmouth right after the bombing. going
're negotiating with him or make contact with him or just simply trying to wait him out? >> as jim kavanagh said, there is a standard procedure to deal with a situation like tat and you look at it in terms of a hostage situation. ultimately and ideally, they want to bring this person out alive. they want to minimize any potential loss of life. so, if they have isolated him in a place where they have high confidence that they have a secure perimeter, then they'll take as long as necessary to try to get him to surrender, if, in fact, that's the case right now. >> in about seven minutes the president is going to get a direct briefing from robert mueller, they're both headed to the white house in less than ten minutes. i want to bring in cliff van zandt former fbi profiler. clint, you've been hearing everything. my apologies there. you have been hearing everything about learning more and more little bit about who these brothers are. what kind of profile would you be putting together right now? >> well, number one, we all have to admit it is amazing to get this much information this quickly. you look
thing in the world can happen to a city and dumb sportscasters will go, three hours, jim, this city forget there was a nuclear blast. >> something different was going on there. >> here, it can only happen in boston because boston is a one sports team town. at the end of the day, the sox that pull the entire team together. >> fenway. >> and fenway, the cathedral to a city. it had to be an amazing day there. >> it was. it was an amazingly emotional afternoon. it was a cathartic moment. a baseball game happened to have been played but it was if a tiny basilica on the back bay and the region was attracted to it. the suspected suspect had been successfully captured the evening before. neil diamond called the red sox switchboard. >> are you kidding me? >> called the red sox switchboard and said i'm in town, my name is neil diamond. i'd like to come and sing the song and he showed up. >> wow. >> to the surprise -- >> which, of course, people are watching that don't know, that's been a tradition. >> yeah, for a long, long time, many years. middle of the eighth inning, they sing it. >> it's
, they may have done it there or may have had a region, a quantum leap there, as jim was talking about, where will you develop those bomb-making skills? you don't go to m.i.t. to learn,build pressure cooker bombs, do you go to the caucuses, do you go to that area of the world where these devices have been used successfully to attack humanity for year upon year upon year. so i think that six-month period, the russians help us in that we may be able to identify who he was working with and gone to perhaps some type of terroristic training, bomb making school. realize the two brothers set some place. they built multiple pressure cooker bombs, built these hand-held devices. they did a lot. we have had fwhoermts u.s. try to blow their underwear up, try to blow their shoes up, try to blow their car up and they weren't successful, thank god. >> you think this goes beyond what they could pick up on the internet? >> i do i do. i think somebody sitting over their shoulder neath needed to be done. i don't think it was looking a this the seven or eight-page manual you could pull out of inspiration the al
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